Rosa-Máren Magga, Indigenous Peoples’ Secretariat: You’re listening to This Way Up, the Arctic Council podcast bringing you stories and experiences from the Arctic. I’m Rosa-Máren Magga of the Arctic Council Indigenous Peoples’ Secretariat
Jessica Cook, Arctic Council Secretariat: And I’m Jessica Cook of the Arctic Council Secretariat. Let’s get into it.
Rosa-Máren Magga: This is a special episode about advocating for the Arctic. It’s a different format from our other episodes where we recorded a conversation between an Indigenous leader, a scientist and a Senior Arctic Official about how they advocate for the Arctic in their respective roles, how they work together and what you, the listener, can do to advocate for the Arctic too. But before we let our experts talk - why do we need to advocate for the Arctic?
Jessica Cook: I think there are a lot of reasons. I mean the Arctic is changing faster than any other region on Earth. There’s extremely sensitive and unique wildlife and ecosystems that only exist in the Arctic. And there are 4 million people living there with deep rooted knowledge and culture. It’s also a region with growing global interest, so it’s a region of strategic importance.
Rosa-Máren Magga: And – the Arctic is homeland to various Indigenous Peoples who have lived here for millennia and it’s therefore crucial to always bring Indigenous perspectives when talking about the Arctic.
Jessica Cook: How do you advocate for the Arctic, Rosa-Máren?
Rosa-Máren Magga: I feel like that a lot, if not everything, that I do and work with is to advocate for my people, livelihoods and the Indigenous Peoples in the Arctic in general and our ways of living, by raising awareness, bringing lived experiences and supporting the work of the Arctic Indigenous Peoples. And in that way, advocating for Arctic where Indigenous Peoples continue thriving and are central in decision-making and important processes relevant to us. And in my role at the Indigenous Peoples’ Secretariat, I get to support the cooperation of the Arctic Indigenous Peoples. How would you say you advocate for the Arctic?
Jessica Cook: Well, I’m a communications professional, so I could say I advocate for the Arctic by raising awareness about it. So when I communicate about the Arctic, I like to put people and their stories front and center, and really elevate those voices that otherwise may not be heard as loudly as, well, narratives you hear about the Arctic in media these days.
Rosa-Máren Magga: We will get into the different ways people can advocate for the Arctic later on, but first, we wanted to cover how Indigenous Peoples of the Arctic have advocated for the region and their rights for, well, a long time, but focusing on recent decades. Sara Olsvig, International Chair of Inuit Circumpolar Council, starts off by sharing how Inuit approach advocacy in the Arctic, and how they have helped secure seats at the table in international fora like the Arctic Council.
Sara Olsvig: We have the approach and the sort of basic worldview that we are interconnected with the nature and the environment around us. And what many other people see as an ice desert or a frontier is the cultural landscape for us. So, depending on where the ice is, the ice is our infrastructure, for example. And, more or less, all of our fjords and mountains we've been on. We know them. We have place names for them. They are not unknown to us, and they are not a desert to us.
So, I think that that the, the it's a reciprocal relationship between us as humans and the nature. And that is basically also the approach we bring to policymaking to negotiations on treaties and agreements about managing the environment. So, yes, the environment provides us with resources. And we wouldn't be able to have lived in the Arctic for millennia if we had not also seen the environment as our cultural landscape.
Rosa-Máren Magga: Indigenous Peoples around the world are some of the most vulnerable to negative effects of climate change, environmental degradation and human rights violations, among others. And yet, Indigenous Peoples have had to fight for a seat at the table in international fora so that they can be properly represented in global discussions and decision-making processes.
Sara Olsvig: Indigenous voices and Indigenous Peoples globally are represented on many international platforms. That representation was not a given. That wouldn't have happened if Indigenous Peoples themselves had not, been there at the meetings, at the institutions and demanded, a seat at the table.
Rosa-Máren Magga: The Arctic Council has a unique categorization to ensure the voices of Indigenous Peoples are included. So-called “Permanent Participant” status ensures Arctic Indigenous Peoples’ organizations full participation in all matters and deliberations of the Council.
Sara Olsvig: The, the Permanent Participants in the Arctic Council also knew from right of the beginning that this is not going to be just a consultation process. We are not going to lean back and say it's enough to be consulted. So the precedent set in decision making process of the Arctic- Arctic Council is that the Indigenous Peoples are part of the decision making, are part of the consensus based decision making of not just the Arctic eight, but the Arctic 14. So the eight States and the six Permanent Participants.
And I think it's important to, to remember that sort of bigger perspective of Indigenous movements and Indigenous advocacy, Indigenous agency, to speak on our own behalf within a system that was not built by or for us. And there I think the Arctic Council does play a very significant role in showing the world that this can be done and it can be done in a way with extremely valuable results and outcomes.
Rosa-Máren Magga: Today, when we are living through so many rapid environmental changes, Sara’s advocacy makes it clear that new policies, mechanisms and treaties should include a human rights element.
Sara Olsvig: So one constant in our advocacy has been to take a human rights perspective and approach to setting up mechanisms, if it's within climate change, if it's within biodiversity, if it's within, for example, mitigating plastics pollution, if it's about management of the resources – we've always put on the table: we have rights, and those rights must be fully implemented into these instruments. So when you set up mechanisms and treaties and agreements to address issues in the nature, you cannot do so in a way that is separate from humans. And that approach that I know we share with many, many other Indigenous Peoples around the world is also the approach we've brought to the table and which, in my opinion, has also resulted in stronger outcomes.
So that's a constant, process. And it's, it's – let me put it this way – we don't lack work. But together, with various Indigenous Peoples organizations from all over the world, through working together and through uniting, we have been able to to build those roads and make those seats available for not just Inuit, but for Indigenous Peoples all over the world.
I think we are at a critical moment seeing and hearing and experiencing what is happening these years in the Arctic and beyond. And we are at a moment where we cannot lean back and we cannot back down from any reason or for any reason, including the geopolitical development.
Rosa-Máren Magga: Next, we will hear from a few who are definitely not leaning back from their advocacy efforts. In addition to Sara, a Permanent Participant representative, we also sat down together with a Senior Arctic Official and Working Group representative to hear how they advocate for the Arctic in their respective roles.
Before we jump into that, we just discussed the role of the Permanent Participant. But what is Senior Arctic Official? They are government representatives, usually from an Arctic State's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Each Arctic State appoints a Senior Arctic Official to manage its interests in the Arctic Council. Here we bring in Petteri Vuorimäki, Arctic Ambassador of Finland. To start off, Sara and Petteri discuss how they advocate for the Arctic.
Sara Olsvig: I mean for us as an Indigenous People of the Arctic, I guess we advocate for the Arctic by living in the Arctic. So everything we do, we at least aspire to do in a way that we safeguard the Arctic. In our own language in our side of Inuit Nunaat so in Kalaallisut, our Indigenous language, Arctic is called Issittoq which means, ‘the frozen place’. In other Inuit languages, it is sometimes called something else. I know on the other side, in our Vice Chair’s homeland, they call it “ “ which means ‘the place that has winters’. So we also, through what we call the Arctic, I think, show in our language what our relation and what our view of the Arctic is. And, I think that, or if we try to sort of zoom out to the international scale for us, for our region to be to continue to be the frozen place, our efforts, you know, on a wide range of things to ensure that that what's happening outside of the Arctic, does not destroy the Arctic.
Petteri Vuorimäki: Sara just gave a very impressive answer. I, my heart always goes out in observing various panels, and I feel sorry for the people who speak after Sara Olsvig, informative and very impressive. I think I advocate Arctic by talking about the Arctic, writing about the Arctic, and basically to be seen in the Arctic and around the world. I think one of my roles is to be the Finland's Arctic voice abroad to explain Finnish views and Finnish priorities pertaining not only to Finland, but to the wider circumpolar Arctic, which I always underline in my interventions.
And I think conversely, I need to then further educate the people in Finland about the Arctic, to make it understood that the Arctic is not just Finland, but it stretches from Vancouver, to, to Vladivostok and up north to the North Pole. It's in an enormously large area. And I think the, the, the Arctic States, the Arctic People and in particular the Indigenous People are custodians of a lot, and we have a heavy responsibility towards the region. And through that, to the world, taking into account the Arctic, the importance of the Arctic, globally.
Rosa-Máren Magga: We asked Petteri and Sara what gaps do they see in Arctic advocacy efforts.
Petteri Vuorimäki: Many people don't seem to be able to see the comprehensive picture of the circumpolar Arctic. It is not only about military security. It is not only about business activities. It is not only about the people in the Arctic. It is not only about the climate change, because all these different facets and aspects are interrelated. And, and I think the most important thing in any states or organizations or actors’ Arctic approach and policy is to seek for the right, often very delicate, balance between different objectives, which might even be contradictory in a certain sense.
And I think, the second, it's getting better over the years that I've been doing this, but there is sometimes still a gap in understanding that, that there are people in the Arctic. Because some perceive the region either as a Klondike of untapped resources or the, the theater of, of possible military conflicts or something of that nature. And they forget the fact that people living in the Arctic, they they want to go to school, they want to improve their lives. They they want to fall in love and out of love and, you know, do what people generally speaking want to do everywhere and that they have a right for that. And it's our duty to make that possible for all inhabitants in the Arctic.
Sara Olsvig: Well, I actually wanted to reply that in a little different way. We need more Petteris. We need more of the state representatives, government representatives, and generally just the population who are part of the states that make up the eight Arctic States and so deeply influence what happens in the Arctic. To have that deep insight, to have that understanding of the pluralism, the plethora of what makes up the Arctic, and of course, also beyond the Arctic States. And it's, it's currently still a barrier, I would say.
I think one other aspect that might also, you know, can also be perceived as a gap and which I think we will have a challenge in the Arctic Council also to to fill in the coming years, is to coordinate better the processes we have within the Arctic Council with the processes that are happening outside of the Arctic. As we usually say, what happens in the Arctic doesn't stay in the Arctic. And what happens outside of the Arctic deeply affects the Arctic. We can see that now just with the geopolitical situation. So, it will be extremely important, I think, to continue to have a lot of Petteris, a lot of government officials who have that deep understanding of the interconnectedness and interrelatedness of the issues and to, you know, engage in that common effort that we are all engaged in – that difficult balancing act we are all engaged in – in safeguarding and strengthening the cooperation that we have today through the Arctic Council, but also just in general, as Arctic Peoples in Arctic nations, and beyond the Arctic as well.
Petteri Vuorimäki: I think that's right. One of the challenges in the Arctic is that you – it's a complex region. You have to understand the law, culture, economy, climate science, security policy, history, traditions. You need to have the overall view and then you need to have some understanding on the different aspects. I talk to a lot of people in the Arctic. I think I have the, curiosity of a two year old and patience of a 15 year old. But, I mean, I just love learning about new things.
One of the most fascinating and interesting aspects of my job over these years, there has been, the discussions that I've had with with Sara and the other representative of the Indigenous Peoples, which I, which which is fascinating. And these people across the circumpolar Arctic, they're just so incredibly brave that the region is the focus of a global attention. And these people who've lived there for millennia, doing their best to safeguard their, their, their languages, their culture, traditional livelihoods and things like that, under enormous pressure from the outside. And I think that needs to be commended.
Just the last thing. I mean, for some reason, Arctic is is a place where everybody then comes up with a slogan and I try to avoid them. But, we need more Petteris is a good slogan. I can subscribe by that.
Rosa-Máren Magga: Just like we need people like Petteri advocating at the policy level, we could also use more passionate science communicators, like Heïdi Sevestre. She’s a glaciologist and science communicator who works at the Secretariat of the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Programme (or AMAP for short), one of the Arctic Council’s Working Groups. AMAP measures and monitors pollutants and climate change effects on ecosystems and human health in the Arctic.
Heïdi Sevestre: We're starting to realize that, of course, the Arctic is warming three times faster than the globe. So what's happening is not happening on, on, you know, decades. It's happening on a timescale that is much shorter now. And when you realize that last summer in Svalbard, glaciers were melting three to five times more than usual. I mean, these numbers are absolutely insane. Sometimes I need to double check. Sometimes I really hope that the data is wrong.
But the changes are happening so quickly now, that they're having, of course, a terrible impact on the Arctic itself, but also on the rest of the world. And this is where – you know, the Arctic Council but also Observer countries have a huge role to play – is in connecting the rest of the world to what's happening to the Arctic.
I feel that sometimes when we're in the Arctic, we're in the future because things are happening so rapidly where we live. We are going through what the rest of the world would experience in maybe 10 or 20 years. So again, this is such an incredible place to communicate on climate issues, on on human health issues. Then we need to do our very best in advocating for this very region.
As AMAP, the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Programme, we are a boundary organization between governments and academia. So that means that first and foremost we need to share our results, or reports, with policymakers, with the governments of the Arctic and Permanent Participants. But we also realize and it is extremely important not to ignore the private sector, and also the general public. And speaking from my point of view as a French glaciologist, I can tell you that there's a huge amount of work beyond the borders of the Arctic to educate the world about not only the importance of the ecosystems of the Arctic, but, of course, of the populations living there.
So we have a tremendous work in in sharing the latest science, sharing the facts, but also building this with Indigenous communities and local communities to share the stories of the Arctic. And to be fair, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot here as a scientist, but what people resonate with, what people remember is not the numbers, is not the graphs, is not the statistics. It's always the human stories. This is what will touch people's hearts. And this is what hopefully will motivate people to care more, to help more, and to really understand the importance of these regions and in their own positions, will be able to do something about it.
Petteri Vuorimäki: Can I just add a humble plea to the scientific community to, to not, overestimate the comprehension abilities of us non-scientists. So, whenever the important work is communicated to the lesser mortals outside the domain of academia, I think a very sort of clear and concise language is, is needed. And I'm talking to so many scientists and I find it rewarding, even if I don't understand anything. I mean, I it's always an opportunity to, to, to learn more. But, whenever a report comes out, a kind of simplified advice to the policymakers section is of crucial relevance to that. Because the policy makers would want to have the knowledge from the scientists. Keep educating us and, be patient. If we ask too many questions and don't always understand, we do our best.
Sara Olsvig: And I think I can also add to that two things. So first of all, the, the deep traditions we've built in the Arctic Council to, to have a knowledge production that doesn't only take into account the what we call the Western science systems or knowledge systems, but also the knowledge of Indigenous Peoples.
And I think that's, that's a lesson not only to our policymakers and us as policymakers, but also to the world in terms of understanding the Arctic in graphs and numbers, that also can be informed by the knowledge that is there and already preexisting from the Peoples who've lived there for, for millennia. And I think that this is one of the exciting avenues that we will be embarking on in the Arctic Council to, to build on that tradition, which has been there in many of the Working Groups and find an ability and a common ground to further expand on that. That's what I'm seeing and hearing also, that the new generations of, of scientists and knowledge holders from across the Arctic, are very, very much focused on. And it's and it's a process I really look forward to, because we also have something to build on because it's all already part of the DNA of the Arctic Council.
Petteri Vuorimäki: So many good things could be said about the Arctic Council. But what I really enjoy, the fact that it is so science based science is- permeates through the Arctic Council. And what's particularly fascinating is the, the Indigenous Knowledge, which is on par with science, adds to our comprehension of these complicated matters.
Heïdi Sevestre: Certainly I think it's so incredibly important that these knowledge producers come together. We're facing these new topics. For example, the one thing that comes to my mind immediately is geoengineering for example. That is a voice that is becoming louder and louder and louder that we cannot ignore anymore.
Rosa-Máren Magga: Geoengineering is the intentional manipulation of the climate system to counteract global climate change. Some examples of such process range from reforestation to solar radiation management. There’s still lot unknown about geoengineering and the impacts such initiatives may have.
Heïdi Sevestre: This is when we have to come together, because we need to be, to provide a common answer to these new topics. And we cannot ignore these voices anymore. So I think this is very important. And I'm going to connect that to the importance of having a very strong dialog with the private sector as well. We know that behind geoengineering, we have, you know, a lot of new startups that are being created. These new startups are attracting a lot of funding from philanthropists. And this is certainly a sector that I think we as scientists haven't been very good at educating on. What is sea ice? What is the Greenland ice sheet? Why, why is the tundra so very important? Sea ice is not just a giant white sheet that reflects solar radiation back into space, right? It's so much more than this. The Greenland ice sheet is not just something that will contribute to sea level rise. It's so much more than this.
This is where we can come together with a common message to really explain the dangers of some of these geoengineering solutions. And again, we really need to target not only policymakers on this, but also the private sectors to make sure they really understand the implications of these so-called solutions they're working on.
Petteri Vuorimäki: I think on on geoengineering, I agree with with what Heïdi says. I mean, when I talk to people about geoengineering and I've heard the the sort of ideas, the ideas that I can understand – which most of them sound very much like episodes from some science fiction film. But there's a clear need, exactly as Heïdi says, to, to bring the people together to discuss and to do considerable amount of new research so that we truly know what might work and what not, and avoid possible adverse effects of something which sounds like a good idea, which then could lead to, a really bad idea.
Because the problem with the Arctic is that, if one looks at the various tipping points, the science does not give affirmative answers yet. Where does where does it tip? And if it tips, how does it affect another tipping point? So there's so much research that is still needed. But I think I've always said that my, that the biggest problem that I have with the notion of geoengineering – I can follow the logic of those who are saying that we need new solutions because we're running out of time, but also if we only put our faith into our geoengineering, then that could lead to serious complacency, and that we just don't change anything in our ways of living. And we'll say that's the technology or the science or artificial intelligence or whatever will in due course fix these problems. I think we need to keep changing what we do. And at the same time let science do what science does best.
Sara Olsvig: Yes. And, I think actually geoengineering and that sort of development that you are also describing, and you are describing as well, is something that relates to a bigger issue, which is the approach of the general international world to the Arctic – viewing it as a venue for interaction or interruption in the name of a greater good. That is not necessarily the greater good for the Arctic itself.
So the geoengineering projects – some of them that we have been approached with – would severely damage the livelihoods of Inuit in the proposed places where things would be tested. And without being scientists, we can see that. Some of them are so extremely invasive to the nature that, that they would definitely have consequences. And we have brought this up also to – an issue that needs to be addressed in the Arctic Council. Because we lack the tools and also the frameworks internationally to regulate geoengineering, basically using our ice and fjords and nature as a testing ground. So I think we we truly have a huge task ahead of us, as an Arctic community with the Arctic Council as the lead, I would hope, to inform us all on that and also ensure that that we balance this approach to the Arctic.
Because, of course, we need good relations to non-Arctic States and non-Arctic actors. But we also have something to safeguard in terms of not letting the Arctic become once again, because it has been for us as Indigenous Peoples, that frontier of explorers who are exploring the Arctic, reporting on the Arctic, in the name of someone else’s good. So basically that's colonization.
Last year, in 2024, I was honored to take part in the work of the UN Secretary General when he set up a panel on critical energy transition minerals. And together with my colleague, our task was to ensure the rights of Indigenous Peoples are reflected in this and included in this document that came out of the very fast-working panel's work.
So why was it fast work? Because the world needs energy transition minerals. And what is difficult for us to balance in that sense, that is – yes, we want mining. We want the private sector, we want investment. But we also don't want it to happen the same way that this exact industry historically has done it. Because especially the the extractive industries have a terrible track record in terms of human rights and environmental degradation.
So our task, the task ahead of us, is to understand all of these interplays, but do things in a way where we've learned from the past, learn from the past violations and inequities. And this goes both for for geoengineering as a theme, it goes to the theme of critical energy transition minerals.
So I think that that we we built on a very important tradition of knowledge production in a way that has really been true to the Arctic and its Peoples in the Arctic Council. But we are also facing external pressure. That makes that an even more critical thing. And where we have to be quite responsive to what's happening in the world around us.
Petteri Vuorimäki: Two points to add, if I may. I mean, there are so many challenges and opportunities in the Arctic region that I don't think that we can accomplish all by ourselves, the Arctic states and the Arctic peoples. So there is there is much scope for constructive, bonafide, cooperation with interested active states and organizations outside the region. But any - whenever these cooperate with us and with our region, they need to be absolutely mindful and have full respect for the position of the Arctic states that the, the the Arctic people and in particular to the indigenous people. And a second comment that dawned on me with regard to the science, I think the it is important also that us Arctic officials, us the nonscientific part of the Arctic family, that we are accessible to researchers, and those doing their masters or or research articles. And I my door has always been open, for, scholars and I, I must appear in tens or hundreds of theses when I'm footnoted as the anonymous Arctic official and if you see that, in all likelihood it's me. And it's important to know that they can ask the questions that that science needs. And then we can also, provide, our perspective.
Rosa-Máren Magga: Lastly, we asked Petteri, Sara and Heidi what our listeners could do to better advocate for the Arctic.
Petteri Vuorimäki: Read. You have to read. If you don't read, it's impossible to understand many things in life. You have to to, to meet, talk to people who know more about the Arctic. Talk to the people who live, in the Arctic and then visit the Arctic. Come to the Arctic.
The the wonderful places, in, in the Arctic. We're currently in Tromsø, which is, which is gorgeous. And lastly, there are so many of these international gatherings taking place across the circumpolar Arctic that, make the effort, attend them, listen to sessions, learn and meet the new, people that you meet and have an open mind.
Sara Olsvig: I think actually also, I will refer to some of the, points we have in the Inuit Circumpolar Council's equitable and ethical engagement protocols that we developed exactly because of, I would say, centuries of experience as an indigenous people, of the of being approached by the outside, which include, for example, listen more than you speak, you know, just basically, approach the Arctic, with a curious mind, with the willingness to learn and listen and maybe even understanding or recognizing that the full understanding will not be reached by one meeting or one trip. That a lot of times we experience that it takes, a certain level of or a certain amount of time and level of engagement to reach that deep, common understanding of what we are talking about and what we are, what the Arctic is all about with all its complexities. So, so basically, in these protocols, we also lay out some, some good guidelines on if, for example, not, doing the what do you call a hit and run research that you enter into the Arctic, do your research, and then you leave and nothing is left in the Arctic.
Heïdi Sevestre: Yeah. I really want to echo what has just been said and couldn't agree more. I was about to say to me, the most important thing is to listen. And as scientists, we don't often hear that. But this is just so very important to be humble enough to understand that we need to learn from the people who are from this region first and foremost, and with our tools, with our understanding together we can really make magic happen.
But first, we need to have this humility to sit down and understand that this is a world we need to listen from. We need to observe. And what I loved about what you said also, Sara, is this is a region to be inspired from because things do work in the Arctic. You know, there is this very important openness, this dialog. And this is what we need to see to inspire the world to make a change. And if it works in the Arctic, it can really work everywhere else.
So let us be inspired by this very region. Let's be humble, let's listen. And together we can really help to preserve the traditional ways of the living, the knowledge holders, The knowledge producers and preserve these environments. We care so deeply about.
Jessica Cook: A lot was said during that conversation, but what was your biggest takeaway?
Rosa-Máren Magga: I think this conversation nicely summarizes why the Arctic Council has been so successful. The Council brings together people and entities with diverse perspectives to work with common issues and in this way builds bridges across roles and backgrounds. How about you, Jess? What’s your biggest takeaway?
Jessica Cook: I think this shows how each person has a role to play in advocating for the Arctic. And every person can make a difference in their own way. And it might sound cheesy, but honestly, it’s how people work together, it’s how they cooperate, that’s how the magic really happens. Like Heidi’s important scientific work and communications skills combined with Sara’s knowledge and strong advocacy skills paint a really informative and impactful picture for the Petteri’s of the world to turn knowledge and recommendations into policy to help the Arctic thrive.
Ending credits: Thanks for listening to This Way Up from the Arctic Council Secretariat and Indigenous Peoples Secretariat. This episode was hosted by Rosa-Máren Magga and Jessica Cook. It was developed and written by Jessica Cook, Rosa-Máren Magga and Minetta Westerlund. The music in this episode is by Emil Kárlsen, used with permission. Sound design by Både Og studios.
Thanks so much to our guests Sara Olsvig of Inuit Circumpolar Council, Petteri Vuorimäki of the Finnish Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Heidi Sevestre of AMAP Secretariat.
The views expressed in this episode do not reflect those of the Arctic States and Permanent Participants.